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**UPDATED** - Public Vaping in Thailand Is NOT Legal (Fined for Possessing Vape Gear)

Discussion in 'General Thailand Vaping Discussion' started by Siam Diesel, Jun 12, 2016.

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  1. Siam Diesel
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    Siam Diesel Thread Starter Nauti Moderator Staff Member

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    ATTENTION ALL !!

    I've just heard from a member...he was on a motorcycle and stopped at a police checkpoint in Bangkok. They asked him to empty his pockets...when they saw his mod, they pulled out this "ruling" on a mobile phone and wanted to fine him Bt 40,000 (4x their judged value of the mod) or throw him in jail for 5 years!! Apparently, this ruling has been on the books for at least 30 years!

    When he refused to pay any more than Bt 2,000, he had to go to the police station and see the station chief. When he got there, the chief was at dinner...due back in 2 hours.

    To make a long story short, they settled for a 'fine' of Bt 3,000. When he got up to leave, he reached for his mod...but they told him they were going to confiscate that, so he sat down, turned on his phone & demanded his money back and threatened to call his attorney (he had to turn off his phone when he got there) if they didn't let him leave with his mod.

    They finally relented...and he left with his mod (but it was a near thing).

    He will contact his attorney in the morning...

    I will post more once there's more clarity on this 'new' (old) ruling and how it's now being used against vapers!!

    Be very careful transporting your vape gear until we know the whole story!
    :vaping: :vaping:

    Note: for the time being, posting is turned off for this thread.
     
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  2. Loki
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    Loki Trickster. Vaper. Bringer of Ragnarök

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    Posted here for information with @Loki's consent.

    Reference is to the thread below and the FB post by the Thai lawyer.
    Thread: Proposed Thai Laws | Thailand Vapers
    FB Post: กฎหมายอาสา

    As per the lawyer from the Facebook post :

    Lawyer :

    If you have an electronic cigarette in your possession or any device it is illegal.
    Because Electronic cigarettes are a banned item for importing. Importing Electronic Cigarettes has a current penalty of 5 years imprisonment including a fine.

    The Police have the right to arrest you for your Electronic Cigarettes. The arresting officer has to take you to the police station that he is assigned to, to charge you with the law that prohibits electronic cigarettes to be imported “ Section 20 of the customs act”


    Customs Act 2469

    (He just refers to the laws)

    (http://www.customs.go.th/wps/wcm/co...7d8eedfd5d13/Customs_Act_2469.pdf?MOD=AJPERES)

    Section 20

    Any person found committing or attempting to commit or employing or aiding or inciting any person to commit an offence under the provisions of this Act may be arrested without warrant by any Competent Official, and taken, with any exhibit as to which the offence or attempted offence may have been committed, to a police station to take legal action. If there are reasonable grounds to suspect that any person commits an offence under the provision hereof or possesses article relating to a previous offence or which might be used to commit an offence, the Competent Officer may arrest such person and dealt with this case in a like manner.

    Section 27

    Section 27. Any person imports or brings into the Kingdom any tax unpaid, restricted, or prohibited goods, or any goods which has not duly passed through the customs, or exports or takes such goods out of the Kingdom or assists in any way in importing or exporting or removing or assisting to removal without permission from any ship, quay, godown, warehouse, place of security, or store room, or provide the place to keep, or conceals such goods, or permits or arranges other persons to do so or is involved in any manner in carrying, removing, or dealing with such goods in any manner to avoid or attempt to avoid the payment of customs tax or of any duties of avoid or attempt to avoid any provisions of law and restrictions relating to the importation, exportation, landing, warehousing, and delivery of goods with the intention to defraud the government tax of His Majesty the King with must be paid for such goods or avoids the prohibition or restriction of such goods, for each offence there shall be a fine of four times the amount of price of the goods including duty or to imprisonment for a term of not exceeding ten years, or to both.31


    As of 2016 The Ministry of Commerce have declared and announced that bringing in Shishas or Electronic cigarettes into the kingdom in 2016 is prohibited.

    The Ministry of Commerce have officially announced that Shishas and Electronic cigarettes are banned items and not to be imported Since 2014.

    Section 4 states that Shishas and Electronic cigarettes are banned goods to be imported into the kingdom.


    Underground chatter:

    I talk to quite a few Thai People/ Vendors still cautious but not worried.. I talk to a couple vendors and vapers who said that they were actually in a night club last night when a cop just told them to stop vaping in the club and go out side to the cigarette smoking designated area.

    Another Thai Vaper said that police looked at him in a restaurant and said don't vape in here go outside.

    The best part of this article is all the comments in that facebook post going full blast at the lawyer it seems he eventually gives up answering lol.

    ... But what a hell of an excuse that it gives cops to ahem *cough* ahem . . . lel.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 13, 2016
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  3. Siam Diesel
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    Siam Diesel Thread Starter Nauti Moderator Staff Member

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    The attorney has since pinned an explanatory post; the Thai version & automatic FB translation are attached below:
    (link)

    เนื่องจาก เรื่องบุหรี่ไฟฟ้ามีการแชร์กันมาก เพจ กฎหมายอาสา ไม่ได้นิ่งนอนใจ จึงขอชี้แจงดังนี้

    1 มีผู้โต้แย้งมาว่า “เพียงครอบครองเพื่อใช้ไม่ผิด” ถ้าไม่ผิดจริงๆ มีคำพิพากษาของศาลฎีกายืนยันหรือไม่ หรือเป็นแค่ความเห็น

    2 การโต้แย้งว่าไม่ผิด เป็นการแสดง “ความเห็น” หรือเป็น “ข้อเท็จจริง” ที่เกิดขึ้นจริง ควรอธิบายให้ประชาชนทราบเพื่อความชัดเจนว่า เป็นเพียงความเห็นของท่านเอง หรือศาลเคยตัดสินมาแล้วว่าไม่ผิด เดี๋ยวประชาชนเข้าใจคิดว่าไม่ผิดแล้วโดนตำรวจจับแล้วจะยุ่งกันไปใหญ่

    3 การจะอ้างว่า “เราเป็นผู้บริโภค ไม่รู้จริงๆ ว่าเค้านำเข้ามายังไง หรืออะไรก็ตาม” ก่อนอื่นต้องโดนตำรวจจับไปก่อนครับ แล้วท่านต้องประกันตัวออกมาเพื่อสู้คดี การอ้างดังกล่าวเป็นขั้นตอนในศาล ซึ่งท่านต้องไปแก้ตัวในศาลหลังจากที่โดนจับและประกันตัวออกมาแล้ว

    4 การอ้างว่า “ไม่รู้” ดังที่กล่าวมา “ไม่มีอะไรยืนยันได้ว่า ไม่ผิด” เป็นเพียงข้อต่อสู้เท่านั้น ซึ่งศาลต้องตัดสินอีกทีนึง ขึ้นอยู่กับพยานหลักฐานด้วย ดังนั้น ความเห็นส่วนตัวของผม ถ้าจะบอกว่าไม่ผิดเลย คงไม่ใช่ คนที่อ้างข้อกฎหมายดังกล่าว น่าจะชี้แจงให้ประชาชนทราบข้อมูลนี้ด้วย ไม่งั้นประชาชนเข้าใจผิดไปกันใหญ่ คิดว่าไม่ผิดจริงๆ

    5 ถ้าตำรวจเจอบุหรี่ไฟฟ้า ท่านจะโดนจับก่อนเลยครับ การแก้ตัวต่างๆ ว่ากันทีหลัง รู้แบบนี้แล้วควรระวังครับ หากท่านเชื่อว่ามีครอบครองเพื่อใช้ไม่ผิด ต้องไปว่ากันที่สถานีตำรวจหรือที่ศาลนะครับ

    6 เพจ กฎหมายอาสา ได้สอบถามเจ้าหน้าที่ที่ทำการจับเรื่องนี้มาแล้ว แต่ไม่อาจเปิดเผยตัวได้ เพราะมีผลต่อหน้าที่การงาน เรื่องบุหรี่ไฟฟ้าผิดกฎหมายนะครับ และมีคนโดนจับมาแล้ว

    7 การห้ามนำบุหรี่ไฟฟ้าเข้า ประกาศในราชกิจจานุเบกษาวันที่ 26 ธค 2557 และมีผลตั้งแต่นับถัดจากวันที่ประกาศในราชกิจจานุเบกษาเป็นต้นไป

    8 กฎหมาย ไม่มีผลย้อนหลัง ดังนั้น ผู้ที่นำเข้าก่อนกฎหมายมีผลบังคับ ไม่มีความผิด รวมถึงคนที่มีไว้ครอบครองก่อนกฎหมายบังคับด้วย หรือมีบุหรี่ไฟฟ้าที่นำเข้ามาก่อนกฎหมายบังคับ ไม่มีความผิด แต่ท่านต้องพิสูจน์ให้ได้นะ เช่น มีใบเสร็จว่า ซื้อมาก่อนกฎหมายบังคับใช้ (ถ้ามีก็พกติดรถเลย) ดังนั้น การพกบุหรี่ไฟฟ้า จะต้องพกเอกสารหลักฐานด้วย ไม่งั้นโดนจับไปก่อน แก้ตัวทีหลัง

    9 นอกจากบุหรี่ไฟฟ้าแล้ว ยังรวมถึงบารากู่ สารสกัดต่างๆ ห้ามนำเข้าเช่นเดียวกัน

    ทั้งหมดนี้ เขียนขึ้นด้วยความหวังดีครับ เราไม่อยากเห็นคนโดนตำรวจจับเพราะไม่รู้กฎหมาย บางคนมาด่าเรา แต่ถ้าเราไม่มาบอก ท่านอาจจะโดนจับได้

    เพจ กฎหมายอาสา ช่วยเหลือประชาชนบนพื้นฐานแห่งความยุติธรรม

    http://www.cib.police.go.th/panich.pdf

    Automatic FB Translation (you'll get the gist):

    Because about e-cigarettes have been shared. Paige law volunteered to not rest assured by explained as follows:

    1 are those who argue that "only possession to use correctly," if you really have a guilty verdict of the supreme court confirm or just a comment.

    2 argument that correctly, a performance of " comment " or " facts " that happened really should explain to let people know. Just to be clear that is only your opinion. Or Court judge here. Guess correctly, wait people understand think correctly, and got arrested. So busy. Go Big.

    3 will be claimed, "we are a consumer don't really know how to bring him in, or whatever." first of all, must be arrested first... You have to bail out to litigation. The claim is a step in the court, which you'll have to excuse in court. After being arrested and bailed out.

    4 claims, " I don't know " as " just " nothing can confirm that correctly " is just a reminder only a fight which the court must judge. Based on evidence. So my personal opinion that this was not wrong. It wouldn't be the person who claimed the bylaws should explain to People know this information. Otherwise, people misunderstood. Let's go big, think correctly, really.

    5 if the police found cigarettes, you will get caught. Various excuses that later. You know this. So be careful. If you believe in possession to use correctly, have to go to that at the police station or in court.

    6 page law volunteered to have questioned the officer caught this before, but can't reveal yourself because affect her job about cigarettes illegal. and someone got arrested here.

    7 the forbidden brought cigarettes into the announcement royal drive, mission, Government Gazette on the 26th, my mother 2557 and effective since the count next to days of America drive, mission, Government Gazette onwards

    8 the law not tbt so who import before the law enforced. Not guilty, including the person who has possession. Before the law enforcement with cigarettes or imported before the law enforcement not guilty, but you must prove to. For example, there's a receipt that bought before. The Law Enforcement (if there's just been carrying them around in the car.) so the carry cigarettes have to carry a document evidence. or get arrested before excuses later.

    9 except cigarettes and still including hookah. Extract similar things forbidden to import

    This is all written for the good. We don't want to see someone getting arrested because I don't know the law. Someone come and yell at us, but if we don't have to tell you might get caught

    Paige law volunteered to help the people on the basis of justice.

    =====================================

    Document referenced in the link above is attached below. My g/f tells me it's The Ruling from the Minister of Commerce on 12 Dec 2014 banning the import of e-cigs & shi-sha (barraku).
     

    Attached Files:

  4. Siam Diesel
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    Siam Diesel Thread Starter Nauti Moderator Staff Member

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    Bottom Line - vaping, at least in public, now appears to be illegal (thread title has been changed).

    If the police see you with an e-cig (best not to let that happen), it would be very helpful to be able to produce a receipt for the mod (e.g., pic in your phone) from before the date of the import ban (12 Dec 2014) as that seems to be the only 'out' at present.

    Bringing vape gear in through the airport has the same illegal status irrespective of whether it's only for personal use.

    It's open season on vapers, so be very careful. :(

    Stay safe & vape stealthy!
    :vaping: :vaping:
     
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  5. Vaper

    Vaper Member

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    Good advice.
     
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  6. Siam Diesel
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    Siam Diesel Thread Starter Nauti Moderator Staff Member

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    UPDATE FROM THE MEMBER WHO GOT STOPPED & FINED

    The short version...he spoke with his lawyer & after researching the matter, his lawyer said there was nothing he could do. The BiB were within their rights, and more importantly, because of the way this is set-up, they can imprison you immediately without an arrest warrant, and then you have to get bailed out and go through the Thai legal system. Wish there were a different ending or better news!

    It's my personal feeling that this law (from 30 years ago) was never intended to be applied like this since it talks about the Customs officer seeing/being aware of an import violation and then having to take the offender to the police station for imposition of a fine and/or imprisonment.

    But it's now being used against vapers. And all because people have made a decision to use a healthier nicotine delivery system. It truly boggles the mind. o_O

    It has yet to be tested in the courts, so only time will tell if it will stand up. It also will be interesting to see what happens if this gets picked up by the international press - - won't be good for tourism if tourists start getting hauled in for possession of ecigs.

    At the moment, the best advice is to keep your vape gear well out of site when you're out in public (or leave it home) until there's more clarity.
    :vaping: :vaping:
     
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  7. Konvict
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    Konvict ProVari Moderator Staff Member

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  8. Siam Diesel
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    Siam Diesel Thread Starter Nauti Moderator Staff Member

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    ^^^^^
    Source: E-cigarettes - "light up" and face years in jail - Thailand News - Thailand Forum

    "E-cigarettes - "light up" and face years in jail

    "BANGKOK: -- A popular online police page has confirmed penalties for the possession of E-cigarettes. Users could be jailed for five years and producers face 10 years inside for flouting the law.

    "The advice from policewoman Sirirat Piankaew on the "Muat Ka" page comes in the wake of the justice minister's call for amphetamines to be taken off the narcotics list. Much confusion still reigns about the legality of e-cigarettes, reported Daily News.

    "Sirirat said that while there is actually no law forbidding the possession of E-cigarettes they fall into a category of goods that have not had tax levied on them and their possession therefore is illegal. Offenders could face five years jail or a fine of four times the value of the goods or both jail and fine.

    "The importation, sale and production for sale of E-cigarettes is also illegal with offenders liable to 10 year sentences for production and sale and a fine of five times the value of the goods or both. This law has been on the statute since December 2014.

    "All services associated with the smoking and promotion of E-cigarettes are also banned.

    "Source: Daily News"
     
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  9. Siam Diesel
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    Siam Diesel Thread Starter Nauti Moderator Staff Member

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    Last edited: Apr 30, 2017
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  10. Konvict
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    Konvict ProVari Moderator Staff Member

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    Did they already ask that lady cop, that has a FB page, what she thinks about this?
     
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  11. Siam Diesel
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    Siam Diesel Thread Starter Nauti Moderator Staff Member

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    Not as far as I know...but I suspect this guy outranks her!

    Edit: I just checked the previous FB posts from the law firm & the policewoman that started this whole thing. FWIW, links to this latest video have been posted in both threads.
     
    Last edited: Aug 1, 2016
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  12. Siam Diesel
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    Siam Diesel Thread Starter Nauti Moderator Staff Member

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  13. Konvict
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    Konvict ProVari Moderator Staff Member

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    Last edited: Oct 27, 2016
  14. Siam Diesel
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    Siam Diesel Thread Starter Nauti Moderator Staff Member

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  15. Siam Diesel
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    Siam Diesel Thread Starter Nauti Moderator Staff Member

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