Rayon

Just curious how many folks here are using and what they think. I bought myself some a month or so ago after reading Rayon thread at: Rebuildable Atomizer Systems and think it's fantastic stuff. IMO, better wicking than any form of cotton I've used, a more saturated and flavorful vape and it's required less swapping out as it stays cleaner longer and is good at resisting gunking up. There's only been a couple juices in my collection that didn't get a decently good improvement in using it. Not sure it can be sourced here in BKK but if so it's probably very cheap as it is in the USA. For those who haven't tried, it may be worth checking out!

One tip I can pass along is using just about 1.25 X more relative to cotton through the coil as instead of expanding when saturated, it collapses. Also, be careful not to have too much on the deck of your RBA and instead go for the tails just resting upon it. For RDAs you can use about the same amount in the bed as cotton and you'll probably see that it helps to hold more juice compared to cotton and that's a really nice plus!

Anyway, just wanted to inquire and share. Cheers!

 

I Bought Graham CelluCotton from Amazon.com in the States. Yes, the name has cotton in it but that's because there are two families of products under that name, one is 100% pure rayon and the other is Rayon together with a cotton backing. The one to get is 100% rayon. There's also a source of 100% Rayon cotton balls and a few references in the thread said that sort may be available through medical supply outlets or practices such as hospitals. Cant recall the name of the supplier of the balls in the thread but might be avail through Amazon as well. Hope this helps some!

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Another thing to add is that the thread I referred to is an excellent source of information about the composition and safety of Rayon. I believe it is originally born out from tree cellulose and once in it's final form is quite pure and free from impurities....much less than cotton (even organic and sterilized forms). Only thing mentioned about any impurities is a very small amount of a form of salt that may remain in it's final state. Some have boiled the Rayon and have said it removes that. I too have boiled and didn't notice a big change. Will post a couple links here in sec...

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Delasco - Rayon Balls

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One source of info showing things like better heat resistance and other properties that show how it lends itself well to vaping: DAIWABO RAYON CO.,LTD

 

No idea if it's readily available here. If so, I'd try it in a second - it sounds good. Next trip back to Canada I'll definitely pick up some.

 

The stuff is cheap and some of the box/quantity options are lightweight so I wouldn't imagine much of an additional cost hassle in shipping or dealing with customs.

 

I just found this on a Dutch website, but maybe good for you to know!

Rayon is made from plants and trees, bamboo included, but it must go through a chemically-intensive process that results in a considerable amount of pollution......

"These consumers, however, may be concerned about products made from bamboo that involve significant chemical processing, such as rayon. We want to make sure that consumers are not misled."

Once bamboo or any other tree is turned into rayon, it is misleading to claim it is anything other than rayon because of the chemical bath used to convert the material from a natural product into rayon.

It lands in a bath of sulfuric acid, resulting in the formation of rayon filaments: (C6H9O4O-SC-SNa)n + ½nH2SO4 → (C6H10O5)n + nCS2 + ½nNa2SO4 (Rayon - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia)


Bamboo-zled: FTC says retailers fibbed about bamboo product claims - DailyFinance

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Another thing they are talking about that the brand talked about is not 100% Rayon...
http://www.minifibers.com/MSDS/MSDS_Rayon_RAFL-RATC.pdf

I didn't see the brand named here but they claim this company makes it for them

 

Thanks for continuing the discussion! Take a look at the thread on ECF where the facts have been presented on it's production, safety etc.. It's usually produced in a closed loop system with production chemicals returned back and resulting rayon (100% in product I use) is pure and cleaned of nearly all contaminants or extra materials. Not to knock what you are presenting here but info like that was presented in that thread as well as a lot more by concerned folks and it's been countered quite convincingly with latest information and pretty well established to be safe and the real deal;. Cheers!

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I see what you presented and wrote was not necessarily an indictment against using Rayon and instead passing along info so apologies for the quick jump in the way I did. Anyway, below is one post in the ECF thread I referred to that was submitted by the original thread maker. I see it referenced the same PDF that you linked. There's lots more info in that loooong thread and had there not been, I wouldn't have tried rayon in the first place.


None of those listed chemicals remain in the fiber or are part of it.

Their msds sheet is great it says all the good stuff. 0 toxicity. Safest rating. No cancer causing chemicals per state of California.
http://www.minifibers.com/MSDS/MSDS_Rayon_RAFL-RATC.pdf
The company does not make rayon. They process the rayon or actually just cut it and add
Finishes.
MiniFIBERS Inc. - Company History


What the op there doesn't realize is one reason I said not to use fabrics or yarn like aunt Lydia's. When it's spun they use a finish or additive to make it easier to spin. Our rayon is not spun to yarn. So take that part out of the equation what are you left with.?.. The facts.

The other big thing is that they need to realize that its not just mixed together to make rayon. It's actually chemical compound changes that make the rayon. Technically rayon wouldn't be rayon if cs2 were present. The reaction the sulfuric acid causes -forms the pure cellulose bonds. The Cs2 is free from the molecule at that point. Also any trace of cs2 'you may think' may be there has a half life of 12 days in air.

Op you say we jump on people questioning it. Well I've gotten that stuff from the beginning and never has anyone said anything that has scientific ground to their statements. Im just debunking it and you get upset because I debunked the statement.. I'm still waiting for a real debate... I always try to post the sources of the information. 120 years and you guys find no scientific data showing rayon fiber contains any harmful chemicals. Yet oeko tex chemical analyisis lab certifies it free from harmful chemicals: even stuff that could vaguely be hazardous.

I'm just sharing all this because I knew how great it was and wanted others to experience it. all I got in the beginning was oh that's gonna kill you it's plastic it melts it's poison. None of those statements are true.

It's not synthetic its semi synthetic. Pure cellulose doesn't exist in nature.

 

If the Zippo rayon can be used with ecig, I found one place that sell Zippo rayon. It's Zippadeedoo shop, 2nd floor Suziku Avenue near Major Cineplex Ratchayothin.

But it's quite pricey, 100 Baht per pack (i believe that's enough rayon to be stuffed in 3 zippos).

ps. not sure if they still have it in stock, I found in this thread ¡é͹àÃÂ͹ ÁÕ¨Ó˹èÒÂáÅéÇ·ÕèÃéÒ¹... (it's thai language but if you guys want to buy i'll ask for you )

 

A couple folks in the ECF thread mentioned the Zippo branded stuff is indeed rayon and could be used but I don't see where anyone had confirmed trying. Not knowing how that particular rayon is produced or treated afterwards, I would consider boiling it first just for peace of mind and it may work well. Speaking of boiling, I am going to try boiling some of mine for another taste test soon and will report back afterwards.

Oh and BTW, the first guy who used rayon got it out of a particular brand melatonin pill bottle. Warning though that most pill bottles use cotton or another type of synthetic fiber and not rayon. There's a way to tell if its rayon by doing a burn test. I think the key thing is it does not melt, produces far less ash than cotton and it smells of burning wood when burned under flame.

 

Mostly straight out of the box because the nice thing is the strand shape and pulling off of it has the fibers running in the same direction. I have boiled in the past and also again recently and have noticed a slight improvement in taste (maybe it's just me) in comparison using the same RDA, coils and juice.

 

Aloha. The zippo shop is in my building complex. Went and got some rayon there. Here are some facts you may find useful.

Asked for rayon, a small clear plastic bag was produced. Nothing printed. No blister pack. No zippo branding. Pure no frills.

The shop is very high end. The impression has always been that all merchandise is authentic. Personally purchased my current zippo there and restock consumable gas, flint, etc from this source. Never questioned merchandise, never thought to before and never had cause to. In this case, the thought does come to mind that without any form of branded packaging, the material could be from anywhere. Still, you can balance that position with the obvious quality of every other item in the store (there are many, many items in stock and on display) to put this into a different perspective.

The quantity of rayon presented was obviously to refill one zippo lighter. Which will cost you 40 baht. Did not ask shopkeep about the source, or quality / purity of the rayon. Just, 'do you have?' and, 'how much?'

Purchased the rayon. Later weighed the amount to be 1.68 grams. Boiled and vaped but have nothing to compare it to of the same material. Therefore I cannot comment on its quality.

Personally, I found it had a flavor signature that was not necessarily bad just uninvited. Was expecting to not have to notice the rayon. Still uncertain if I care for it or not. Coincidentally was planning to purchase the same material anyway to actually cram in my zippo. Had not thought of vaping with it... Kinda of strange... Anyways, hope this helps.

 

Thanks for sharing the info and experience! At worst, the rayon should impart only an extremely small change in flavor so I wonder about the way the type you used was produced or treated. If not 100% pure and very clean I would expect it not to be much better than cotton and possibly worse I guess. Also the format of the rayon can have an impact, there's rayon in balls, strands, and long fiber and there can be differences in how each wicks. The rayon you received may not have matched these three common formats and could have resulted in a "non-standard" experience too. It should be more transparent in flavor than cotton and noticeably so too.

For myself, the first time I used it I was surprised at the difference and improvement over good quality organic-boiled cotton. I only had a couple weeks of RBA cotton usage in me at that time. From what I have seen online from veteran types posts, the vast majority of them report seeing the improvements in flavor and performance....some of them were very skeptical at first too. It's being talked about more and more so I would think that's the result of more and more people being pleased with it and word of mouth taking hold. All that being said, there are a few cases I saw where people tried it and felt little improvement over cotton. Taste is subjective and the experience of every individual different so I definitely respect that and see most others speaking well of rayon online do too. Most repeated message is whatever works for you and keeps you off cigs!

Oh and just curious, did you do a burn test on the material and did it act like Rayon is supposed to? I'm kind of thinking that if it introduced an unwanted flavor there's something different about it. Even if it acts like Rayon and boiled there may be something about the way it is produced or something else making it taste not so good.

 

Interesting as I thought I had read that it produced less ash so I may have read somethign worng or info not accurate. One thing I know was repeated was when burned it smells more of paper burning.

Here's a long vid of someone who tried it out...there's more out there but anyway, he gives his thoughts....good to skip to the 26 minute mark for summary thoughts. I haven't watched much of it but he does a build and talks about differences etc.:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3j8pk3qRizU

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One more quickie on the burn test:

From a textile website:

Fabrics Sometimes Mistaken for Cotton

Linen is similar to cotton but burns more slowly.
Rayon still burns after the flame is removed, and although it has an odor similar to cotton or paper, it does not have an afterglow after removing it from the flame. Cotton produces an afterglow.

The reference to smelling more like paper when burned compared to cotton.

One important thing safety-wise is that it should not melt.

Oh and thanks V, for the burn test vid link!


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One note on the vid I put here is that he recommends using less Rayon than cotton. Myself and many others disagree at least in part because that, while rayon is fluffier to start and it seems like you could use less, like I mentioned before, it collapses when soaked and if you use the same amount in the coil as cotton where there's just a slight resistance when pulling it through, it can collapse and no longer touch top inner part of the coil.

I and others find its best to have a slightly/generally tighter filled coil with rayon compared to cotton so you use more for inside the coil purposes (also same quantity in the tails can be good for the filling/laying down in the decks of RDAs)......but for the tails in RBAs like kayfuns where you have a small deck using juice channels, it can be good to have less quantity of Rayon on the decks......I have it just touching the deck and do not lay it along (ex. L-shaped laying across - common method) or stuffed on top the deck. Also, because rayon wicks better than cotton and a larger amount on the deck can choke your channels if not careful, I am experimenting with good success in cutting the tails to form a "V" shape and diagonal shape where bottom portion of the tail on the deck is reduced in size some, not a lot. This was recommended by a few folks online.


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