E-Liquids - The Law Of Diminishing Returns

It's taken me a while to figure this out, it was hinted to by many people along the way ...

I am finding that lower wattage devices such as Nautilus provide better flavour, and that the higher watts I go, bigger coils, more powerful tanks etc, the less I can taste the vapour, the less flavour it seems to have.

Don't get me wrong, I don't think sub ohming is pointless, I'm still enjoying some of the higher wattage setups, BUT, I'm starting to agree with a lot of the more experienced guys here, that a lot of the "more is better" and "more is more" marketing is just complete hype.

My experiences with juice mixing (and working with flavours) have led me to conclude, more is often NOT BETTER at all. There's a limited concentration range at which we can taste some flavours, beyond that, with more, I think the senses just filter it out, or a pleasant taste may become an unpleasant one.

I think there may well be a need for juice manufacturers to specify what kind of equipment they are expecting one to vape on too. I don't think one liquid will work well with all equipment. Well, so far I didn't put anything in the nautilus tank that didn't taste good, I'm sure it will happen eventually.

So, overall, I think what I'm saying is, "don't believe the hype", it's better to trust recommendations from other Vapers, especially those who've been there and done it. More isn't more with flavours, beyond a certain point, more starts to become less, and in some cases worse.

Nautilus will become my "baseline" tank for actually tasting juices alongside with a modest RDA build, that's quick to rewick, probably vertical coil as I'm preferring those at the moment. RDA will be where I start when tasting juices, that way I don't risk clogging a premade coil with crap, and new wicks costs virtually nothing.

Sorry moderators if this is the wrong forum, please move if you feel this is better suited in one of the other forums.

 

Agree with you for the most part. Certain juices really shine at certain wattages (according to build, etc.) As everyone has their own preferences, this could vary greatly. I personally get no satisfaction from MTL anymore. A DTL hit for me at anything less than 20 watts is pretty tasteless. On the other side of the coin, most juices run out of flavor above 60 watts on most of my builds. However with the right build and RDA I can still get some nice flavor well above 100 watts. With that being said my average for tanks is 25-30 watts. RTAs 30-45 watts. RDAs 40-60 watts. I like the warm dense vape and MTL at low wattage just doesn't do it for me. Whatever works best for you is the most important thing when vaping.

 

Fairly similar experiences @Lotta until I got my Nautilus, that's what started me thinking that more watts may not necessarily lead to more flavour, and indirectly my enjoyment from vaping ... and, obviously like you say, what works for you is the right thing !

 

Just like @Lotta I can't get back into mouth to lung any more (or not at this moment, at least). I still miss the flavour on the Nautilus but the vape just doesn't feel ... satisfying or 'full' I guess.

The way I see it is quite simple; over 1 Ohm = flavour, anything below 0.5 = CLOUD and my preference is somewhere in the middle.

Right now my range is between 0.5 ~ 0.8 Ohm, 20 ~ 32.5W on the stock coils and never exceed 45W on my RTA.

 

I must admit to having not liked MTL vapes on certain tanks, my subtank mini I didn't get on with the over ohm coils for instance, and flavour I don't recall being as good as nautilus. I will in the light of these revelations probably try those coils again ...

In general I think your simplification is correct. The only caveat is that I can easily push say kanthal over ohm with 26g wire many wraps, but the finished coil might be able to push 40w + through it. So, I think it's the wattage here that's the difference (with today's mods that do the thinking for us). Obviously with simpler mods, then resistance has to be tuned to suit the equipment, and ohmage dictates watts.

For day to day vaping, I have several mods setup with several tanks, and my vaping style suits my mood, so not just stuck to one or the other. Right now this minute I have nautilus in my hand with GLV purple stuff @ 10w, an hour ago I was vaping my 200w RDA build with banana banoffee pie.

Cake and eat it, I suppose, but the Nauty is winning at this moment

 

I have 1 juice that was too sweet in the Nautilus. Tried it in the Atlantis and at 25w it is much better.

I think airflow is also a factor. I drilled the biggest hole in 1 of my Nautilus tanks to get more airflow and it improved it for my tastes.

 

That's interesting, and yes I think juices will behave differently in different devices so makes sense ...

Hadn't thought about drilling my Nauty yet for increased airflow, but thanks for suggestion, now I know it's possible if I want to do it

 

Could be the reason why the Kabuki is a hit with some people who didn't get on with the std Nauty.

Todd mentioned in one of his Vlogs that he thought the Kabuki was just a fancy holder for an Aspire coil and was going to pass it on...until he actually used it...now it's a keeper LOL

 

I had already ordered a UD Zephyrus which I received last week. This is a tank with two large air holes in the building deck and 4 in the AFC, and 4 posts to build it with dual coils. But it also comes with a conversion kit to make it a one coil semi-M2L.

My intention was the same as yours, Scuba V. I wanted to see how it is up there at higher wattage and learn something. So at the same time we had a very similar idea, but my approach is mucho more humble. That's because for me 40 Watts is already high wattage land.
I came out with two sets of coils:
- SS316L 3 mm diameter 28 ga, resulted in 0.5 ohms build
- KanthalA1 3 mm 26 ga came out to 0.35 ohm
and a
- 1 coil 28 ga 2.5 mm SS316 = 0.92 ohms

I ran the dual coils setup to try wattages in between 25 and 50 W. I did briefly try 70 W. I ran the single coil with 18 W.

I concur.

 

Heard good things said about those too, so I'll add to my shopping list for a convenient deal

I did learn a lot from the 200w project, fairly convinced that 200w isn't my all day vape, but I will continue to play with it ... Experimenting helps us learn what's good and what's not ...

If you get a chance do try experiments with vertical coils, I'm tending towards them at the moment ... Although they don't work in every scenario, and may be inferior to horizontal in other scenarios.

UD Zephyrus Looks like it could be a winner, provided wicking and coiling are working as advertised my favourite mistake is putting too much wicking in, then wondering where all the flavour went ... Did you do a review yet for Zephyrus ?

 

I agree it's a learning experience but most likely I don't go there again.

The Zehyrus is a bitch to build coils on. No I didn't.

 

That's what learning is for

If it's anything like my griffin, then just keep trying different builds and wicking until it works ... Maybe moderate claptons if you have some premade wire ? Maybe 26/32 4 or 5 spaced wraps 3/2.5mm ID ?

 

If you like vertical coils you may want to look at the 454 Big Block RDA. It is perfect for vertical coils and you can do single, dual or quad coils. Building on it takes a little practice but it is the best vertical coil RDA I have used.

 

I just accidentally vaped my Atlantis at 37.5w after swapping it out for a dripper. I normally vape it at 20w to 25w
It has a Triton 0.5 ohm Clapton coil in it that suggest 40w to 45w
Burnt horrible taste.

 

Wicking and airflow not enough to keep up would be my guess.