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TCR for UD SS316L

Discussion in 'Temperature Control board Talk' started by Lotta, Feb 18, 2016.

  1. Lotta

    Lotta Thread Starter Well-Known Member

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    I have been in contact with UD regarding their Builders Choice SS316L wire. To be honest I thought it would be easy to get an answer directly from them, and of course I would be wrong. I have used the numbers I received from them and tried to find the true manufacturer of the wire without much luck. From what I have found out so far, it looks like the TCR value of their wire, based on the numbers they have provided to me, would be approximately .00094. Because of the differences in alloys used from different manufacturers it is a calculated guess more than an exact answer. With that being said, since each mod manufacturer is inconsistent anyway, this information may not be super helpful but can provide a starting point. For Joyetech and RX200 this would input as 094 in the custom TCR settings. Hopefully this is helpful in providing a starting and "reference" point for this particular brand of wire.
     
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  2. peter-k
    Fine

    peter-k Well-Known Member

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    Mine is label "Best Choice", I guess it's Chinaware. Runs well at TCR 92. Would not make much diff to 94 though.
     
  3. Scratchy
    Lurking

    Scratchy Well-Known Member

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    Particularly if you are using a TCR value in a Joyetech/Wismec mod with recent firmware. They are so "off" at times that the composition of alloys within a material family doesn't even matter much at all. One may find that it's necessary to deviate quite a bit from what's supposed to be the correct value while other times it can work decently...depending on the atty, barometric pressure, day of week or countless other potential variables. You're right that what is supposed to be the correct TCR value is a good starting point. :)

    For example, SS316L build in one atty and same build/resistance in a different one. Atty A requires TCR closer to a SS304 value while Atty B works decently enough close to the default 316L value.
     
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  4. flem
    Relaxed

    flem Vaping for 5 years

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    I find that TCR 100 with this particular wire work on the evic mini, but on the Cuboid I have to set it at 105 to get a god vape, but the best vape with this wire I get on my DNA200.
     
  5. Lotta

    Lotta Thread Starter Well-Known Member

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    Definitely much better on the DNA200. I use the .csv from Steam Engine for SS316L and it is working great. Trying to keep the perceived temperature the same on the Cuboid, I have had luck with 094. If I go to 088 (which is the TCR on Steam Engine) the vape is extremely weak and under-powered. 097 is a little too hot for my setup. I'm not counting on the Cuboid for accurate TC but I tried to get it closer. For now I use the DNA200 for TC and continue to play with TC on the Joyetech chips but I'm close to giving up on the latter.
     
  6. Moog
    No Mood

    Moog Well-Known Member

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    Maybe I'm too uncritical or it's because I'm using ss only or just very lucky that I got well working units...... I have 2 Evics, 1 Cuboid and a Reuleaux R200 in the post (and if I could buy a Wismec Presa 75W TC localy I'd buy it straight away). The RTA's I'm using: Taifung GT2, Hurricane, Aromamizer, Griffin, Goblin mini, Serpent and Bellus. The Taifun and Hurricane single ss316L 28awg 7 wraps ø2,5mm; the Serpent single ss316L 24awg 7 wraps ø3mm, the other ones dual ss316L / ss304 between 24awg and 30awg (and running 28/32 clapton sometimes). Been playing around with the TCR values but now I have all units running in the standard ss setting (said to be for 316L but works for 304 nearly as good for me) and and temp between 220°C and 240°C (more depending on the juice than RTA). I can swap RTA's and only have to change the ramp-up wattage, all combinations give me a real good vape. I only have to crank up the temp by 10 or 15°C if the coils are getting gunky. So this is just my personnel experience, biased by a fan-boy (me) but I had to write something positive about these chips to contrast the picture that one could get reading on TV about them...... Maybe if a had a DNA200 device I would hate the Joyetech and bin them all but as I don't have the comparison.....
    No idea about Ni or Ti as I really dislike the vape with these materials (I taste the Ni and the Ti is somehow "sterile" for me)!

    In the end we are all different and each to it's own - just stay away from analogues & keep on vapin' :peace:
     
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  7. Lotta

    Lotta Thread Starter Well-Known Member

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    I'm don't want to knock any mods, all have their good and bad. But when it comes to TC, I think the reason you are seeing better consistency is that the Evics, the Cuboid and the RX200 you will be receiving are all using Joyetech boards. Add in the fact that you are using only one material and I would think that you would get a fairly consistent vape. The problems with consistency get worse once you try different materials on the same board or the same materials on a different manufacturers board. The Joyetech boards (IMHO) are pretty good in SS modes but very weak in Ni and Ti modes. The only way to compare is go from board to board with the different materials and temperature settings. I have seen temperature differences of 100 F on different boards with the same materials for the same "perceived" temperature. The DNA 200 is the "reference" I use because of the accuracy of the board. I can count on it to deliver a "consistent", "perceived" temperature under almost any condition. I am vaping on a Cuboid and an eVic VT right now. I like the eVic VT because of the long battery life with the built in li-po. I rarely use more that 60 watts, so this is a great mod in power mode for me. I am still using the Cuboid in TC with 316L for now but I will probably start using it in power mode and use the DNA200 for TC. For the price a Cuboid is a great deal and is well worth the money. I just don't feel it's the best choice for TC. I would buy the Cuboid and the eVic VT again all day long. I don't even know if I will stick with TC. It's nice sometimes but I still like my big claptons on an unregulated device too. One of the great things about vaping is all the choices that are available. When you find what works for you there is no need to go any further unless you want to. To be honest if I had to give up everything except one mod and atty, I would probably keep the Noisy Cricket and a Velocity clone. If I couldn't get by on those then I would have to give up.
     
  8. Scratchy
    Lurking

    Scratchy Well-Known Member

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    You are. OK, just kidding! I'm glad its working well enough for you on your devices!

    I just tried a completely different atty with SS316L and unlike two other SS316L attys that were WAY overpowered on both the RX200 and VTC Mini using the default profile, this particular atty and build combination isn't bad with the default. It only needed about a 20 F increase to correct being slightly underpowered.

    So, with various attys tried (10+) with different wire types (Ni200, Ti1 and SS316) and also different builds through time, only this one combination is halfway competent with the default profile.

    I'm still waiting for Joyetech/Wismec to get a firmware fix out but for now have mostly resigned myself to the fact that, if I swap attys or change builds, there's a high probability the previous TCR values aren't going to work the same and a higher probability the built in profiles are going to be rubbish. So, I am now tending to keep the same atty mod combos as much as possible and minimize rebuilding. It's OK because I mentioned elsewhere, once dialed in with the correct TCR, these mods work very nicely.

    Same here :)
     
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  9. Scratchy
    Lurking

    Scratchy Well-Known Member

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    Checked my current cuboid setting (different mod than the last post referenced - that was RX200) and the SS316L TCR value I have now is 108. Single coil, 0.40 ohm at 480F and still needs an TCR increase as it is vaping more like 440F to 450 F.
     
  10. peter-k
    Fine

    peter-k Well-Known Member

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    For me the only thing I noticed is below 0.3 ohm my eVic mini seems not working reliable anymore.

    And to the Cubis, May be another firmware update can update the Cubis. It took them some time and complaints abt the eVic Mini, too.
     
  11. Scratchy
    Lurking

    Scratchy Well-Known Member

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    Backtrack alert! I had nearly run the wick dry so the vape was diminishing. Disregard that last Cuboid observation. Refilled and TCR of 108 is OK
     
  12. dl12345

    dl12345 Well-Known Member

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    Technically speaking, the "correct" TCR for SS316L is 88 according to steam-engine. However, this value clearly doesn't work properly on the Joyetech firmware (Evic, RX200, Cuboid). Something more in the region of 105 seems to be the built-in setting

    I wonder how much of our problem with TC consistency in SS316 is due to the wire we're using. I have two different spools of SS316L (at least they're both tagged as SS316L). The first (no-name brand) vapes perfectly at about 160 celsius and the coils last a while. The second from focalecig requires 210 celsius for exactly the same experience using the same atty, mod, resistance and juice and the coils are shot in no time.

    I've just ordered a whole raft of different SS316 and SS316L from fasttech (different brand names: UD, MKWS, geekvape). When they arrive I'll test the theory that the wire we're using is a big factor in the quest for TC consistency in SS316 mode.

    Until they arrive, I've temporarily gone back to using Kanthal. It gives me a perfect vape every time. No more running back to the man cave to rip out the coil to make a new one or rewick...
     
    Last edited: Feb 23, 2016
  13. Lotta

    Lotta Thread Starter Well-Known Member

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    One thing to remember with stainless steel wire is that the alloys used can vary from manufacturer to manufacturer (even within the same grade).These different combinations of alloys will affect the true TCR for the wire. The Joyetech firmware just compounds the issue.
     
  14. dl12345

    dl12345 Well-Known Member

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    The specifications for the steel types are quite precise. In my opinion, there really should not be a difference of greater than 20% in the TCR between baseline and observed. This means either the wire is out of spec or the TC algorithm is bonkers
     
  15. Lotta

    Lotta Thread Starter Well-Known Member

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    Let me know if I am missing something. I see nothing precise about the specifications for SS 316/316L. http://www.sandmeyersteel.com/images/316-316L-317L-Spec-Sheet.pdf shows the standards for Alloy 316/316L (UNS S31600/ S31603). Nickel can vary up to 4 % of the total weight, Chromium can vary up to 2 % of the total weight, and Molybdenum can vary up to 1 % of the total weight and still be within the specifications. Variances of that amount among at least 3 different materials will change the electrical properties of the finished product. For a quick example Titanium 1 wire has an allowable residual total of 0.4 %. Less that one half of one percent can be anything other than pure Titanium. Ni200 has to 99 % pure at a minimum.
     
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