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TC Consistency

Discussion in 'Temperature Control board Talk' started by Lotta, Jan 26, 2016.

  1. Lotta

    Lotta Thread Starter Well-Known Member

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    I have been playing with TC for a little while now and it seems that different manufacturers have different TCR settings as the factory setting for something as simple as Ni200. As long as it has been around I would have thought this was a pretty easy one to figure out. I know Ti and SS are newer and there are many types of SS, so I could see this but with Ni200? Here is an example, Ni200 .11 ohm single coil in a Derringer clone. This is all done by what I perceive to be a similar vape temperature and quality and by no means a scientific measurement.

    Tesla Nano 100W TC - 450 F
    Joyetech Cuboid - 500 F
    IVP5 - 400 F

    Yes, I already have the IPV5. Can't speak much about it yet. Haven't had it long enough. I haven't checked this build on the RX200 yet. My friend has one and I will check this build with it and report back. 100 F spread for the same perceived vape seems like a large gap. All devices are reading the coil the same and I am using the same watt/joule setting on each device. I have never been one to vape "by the numbers" and just adjust the device to whatever I like. But now with the new era of TC and more precise boards, I would expect a little more consistency. Maybe I am asking too much. At least with the Cuboid, RX200, and IPV5 you can set your TCR manually. I think this proves more and more that "Temperature Control" is definitely the wrong term, "Temperature Limiting" may be a little more accurate, but "Temperature Guessing (Sort of)" would be the most accurate description. From this day forward I will refer to a TC device as the more appropriate TGS device.
     
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  2. Scratchy
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    Scratchy Well-Known Member

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    You Cuboid results are hardly surprising as the Joyetech/Wismec chipset is often inaccurate with displayed temp vs what you get in actual vape and that on the weak side, sometimes significantly so. So there's an explanation for that one.

    IPV5 - Not sure about that one.

    My experience is mostly different from yours and that's with TC vaping across about a dozen different TC devices and vaping TC for over a year now. Except for the Joyetech/Wismec chipset mods (VTC Mini and RX200) and the XCube II (more a pulsing vape than greatly inaccurate), all my mods are probably within 20 to 30 F of each other overall. Several of them are basically just about the same, perhaps up to 10 F difference and some with the same chipset basically identical. I think that's pretty good and usually my favorite temp setting carries across all of these mods with little or no adjustments.

    If you want real good accuracy and the best TC vape, the DNA200 and the Dicodes mods would be your best choice but they are pricey.

    I think your approach of not strictly vaping by the numbers is a good one. Despite the inconsistencies you have found, you are still able to set a temp to your liking and it will (should) provide you a consistent vape as well as the ability to adjust that temp according to your wishes. That's a pretty great thing IMO.

    I look at it as with most any man made product across different manufacturers, the same basic type of product can have noticeable differences in execution even when the main functions are meant to do the same thing.

    Hope you can still enjoy the vapes on these devices despite your disappointment with how they compare against each other!
     
    Last edited: Jan 26, 2016
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  3. Lotta

    Lotta Thread Starter Well-Known Member

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    Not really a disappointment. Just though it would be a little more consistent from brand to brand. Granted my experience is with just a few devices and no real benchmark to go by. You have tried many more devices and can use the DNA200 as the "standard". Maybe the devices I have tried are just the ones that don't necessarily work in the same way. Given that the IPV5 uses the YiHi chip, I will give it the most weight for accuracy right now. Knowing that the Cuboid is already know to be "weak" and taking that into account, it puts the IPV5 and the Tesla at 50 F apart. I have no idea how the Tesla rates as far as TC so I am not sure if that 50 F means anything. I plan to do a lot more testing before having a solid opinion on each device. For now, I don't worry about what the display says. Just set it for what I like.
     
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  4. Longtail1
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    Longtail1 Vaping Troll

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    Talking of consistency here, although not with mods. Is it harder to get a higher ohm coil to Temp? I have little problem using TC with lower ohm coils but real problem getting higher ohms to higher temps. I have tried raising the wattage to compensate but it never seems to get there. Basically, .2r Ti and up and .3f SS and up is where it starts to get unreliable reaching temp.
     
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  5. peter-k
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    peter-k Well-Known Member

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    View from 40 s :
    **Updated**
    If you change the TCR setting for the higher ohm coil more up it does. The generic TC setting can't, but that may depend on the devices programming. My eVic has no prob until about 0.8 ohm with Ti, in SS until about 0.7 ohm
     
  6. Longtail1
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    Longtail1 Vaping Troll

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    This is on 2 different vt200's got to wonder if the cleanliness, i.e. Gunk, of the coil is having an effect but I just cleaned a SS dual at .4 r and still have the problem. Going to have to work more on these builds I think. TC is causing me some problems unfortunately. These ARE contact coils so I will have to try again with spaced cools as well. Only other thing could be tank connectivity I suppose, but this shows on Goliath V2, Bellus, and also the aromamizer. All generally after the first refil on the coils. I am pretty sure, however, it's going to turn out to be user error. Just VERY frustrating when I am already on a fast learning curve with TC. I just don't know what to fix yet. Lol
     
  7. peter-k
    Fine

    peter-k Well-Known Member

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    Use only spaced coils with TC. Prefer tanks that are known to run well at lower wattage, not those that start shining at 80 W.
     
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  8. Longtail1
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    Longtail1 Vaping Troll

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    Time to rebuild ALL my tanks again LOL. So bloody cold up here atm I can't feel my hands and fingers after just one rebuild, LOL

    BUt I really want to give TC a proper go as I am sure it has advanced a lot since my last aborted attempt. Either way I am getting some fantastic vape, just not always the right temp. Lol
     
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  9. Lotta

    Lotta Thread Starter Well-Known Member

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    Did some more testing and got some interesting results. Changed wires and tested on each of the mods I have available right now. Ti1 .8 ohm single coil Derringer clone. Cuboid 540 F at 50 watts. Tesla 450 F at 50 watts. IPV5 440 F but had to drop down to 30 joules to keep the mod from pulsing and sounding somewhat like a helicopter. The pulsing was very noticeable during the vape as well until I turned down the joules. Need to experiment more with the IPV5. That puts the Tesla and the IPV5 within 10 F of each other but the Cuboid 100 F off. Then things took a turn. SS316L .7 ohm single coil Derringer clone. Tesla does not do SS so couldn't test it. Cuboid 390 F at 60 watts. IPV5 comes with SS preset to 304 so I used a custom TCR of 00092. 425 F at 30 joules. Had the same pulsing with the SS until I dropped it down to 30 joules. Since I don't know if the TCR I used is the best for this build, it puts the Cuboid and IPV5 closer together with SS coils. I know Joyetech is using a lot of SS coils now so maybe they concentrated more on getting the Cuboid dialed in for SS. So what have I learned? Nothing. I am a little concerned about the pulsing with the IPV5. Never had a IPV before so I don't really know much about them. The fact that it just came out makes it even more of a mystery to me. No software or updates for it on the pioneer4you webiste. No one has reviewed it, can't find anything about it on the net yet, so I guess I just wait and see. Unless someone familiar with the IPV series has some insight.
     
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  10. peter-k
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    peter-k Well-Known Member

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    @Longtail1 For SS, vape in Power Mode until satisfied and then use the same wattage in TC. For Ti you may have to use some 20 Celsius higher temp as the one recommended for TC, depending on your mod (which I am not familiar with). In general I don't use too high wattage. Temp protection will kick in, device temp stays low, and vape will get poor.

    6 wraps 28 ga spaced Ti, 25 - 30 W at 240 C and then move up if required, should give a good starting point.
     
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  11. Lotta

    Lotta Thread Starter Well-Known Member

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    Seems like each mod wants to do it differently. The Cuboid for example seems to only use the watt setting as a point not to exceed. You can watch the wattage change in real time and if it doesn't need what you have it set at, it just never gets there. No pulsing or anything if you set the wattage too high. The original batch of Teslas had the power locked at 40 watts in TC. The one I have will let you adjust it but only starts pulsing if you set it way too high. The IPV5 acts like it wants to stay at the joules you set and if the temperature gets too hot it will start pulsing the power. I have a lot learn about TC and with each manufacturer approaching it differently, it seems I have to learn even more.
     
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  12. peter-k
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    peter-k Well-Known Member

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    On my eVic Mini it seems it's more like a temperature limiter, not real temperature control.
    So what chipsets do these devices use?
     
  13. Lotta

    Lotta Thread Starter Well-Known Member

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    The Cuboid is the Joyetech chip. I believe it's pretty much the same as the RX200 board. The Tesla I have no idea. The IPV5 is the newest Yihi chip. The specs say SX330-200 but there is some speculation that it will receive a new firmware and be called an SX340. This mod just came out and there is practically no information out there about it. No reviews, nothing. I pulled the trigger on it because it has the Yihi chip. Time will tell if I made the right call.
     
  14. Scratchy
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    Scratchy Well-Known Member

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    Cool man and good to read your additional thoughts and findings! I wish all my mods worked as well as my DNA200s and a few almost do sacrificing maybe only some smoothness in the vape or they have a "pre-heat" behavior that cannot be modified or adjusted with as much granularity as the DNA200 allows. A big consideration is cost and also form factor. There are not many mass market available dual battery and no single battery DNA200 devices so, pocket-able and stealthy is a little hard to come by with a DNA200. Much more variety in sizes and battery options with other mods and the pricing is better where you could buy 2 or 3 of the others vs just 1 DNA200.

    I would expect the Yihi-based mods like the IPV5 to be quite good. I have an IPVD2, IPVD3 and IPV4S and they all work pretty similarly. All show some slight rattle-snaking with certain power, temp and atty combinations. Same with the Boxer Mod with YihiSX350J. Kinda bugged me but I got used to it and then found it doesn't happen all that often. Just with some of these combinations of things. This is another area where the DNA200 is so good with its smooth and consistent vape.
     
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  15. Lotta

    Lotta Thread Starter Well-Known Member

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    The word on the street is that Yihi wants to complete with the DNA200 with this chip. The firmware is fully upgradeable and is supposed to have an escribe like software to customize settings, logos, etc. Where any of this is I have no idea. If things go forward on this device as stated, I think it would be definitely be a good thing.
     

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