Introducing the Evolv DNA 40 Temperature Protection Board

Below copy is from another forum in regard to the Nickel wire used to have the temperature controlled feature on the DNA40 and some discusions about the nickel wire it self.

Quote:
Found this post by Breaktru on his modders forum, an exchange on Nickel between him and Brandon from Evolv:

Some people have asked about the concerns of using pure nickel wire for coils. Here is what Brandon of Evolv has posted in the Facebook beta group:

OK so John and I have been seeing quite a few emails concerned with the Nickel wire used with the DNA 40. We decided to write a response that I think may be interesting to all of you. Feelfree to steal from it any or all parts to drive away the hypothetical Nickel boggeyman

Original email:
Hi, Off the back of your announcement today of the new DNA 40 board and it's ability to control the temperature of a nickel coil, there has been much concern on vaping forums about the use of nickel wire as a coil. Here is an exert of some of the comments: "Bad, bad idea. Look up the toxicology of nickel and ask if you want to heat that and inhale the result. I won't. " "Nickel is relatively chemically unreactive to some things, but not to others. It reacts very rapidly with carbon monoxide. And nickel carbonyl is really evil crap. And heating any organic flavour is going to resul in some carbon monoxide production. " "So in your opinion using nickel or nichrome as heating wire for vaping is dangerous? I don't know enough about it to judge if you're right or wrong. I hope you're wrong because I think this about to be the next big thing in vaping. This technology is going to start popping up in mass market devices very soon and some premade atties are going to come with nickel rather than nichrome. " Are you able to allay any of these concerns over using nickel wire? Is there a specific type or grade of nickel we use? Does nickel wire pose any more harm than Kanthal A1? Kind regards

Our response:
We agree Nickel Carbonyl is truly evil crap. Fortunately, there isn't any here.

Point 1: We aren't generating carbon monoxide. The whole point of temperature protection is to, well, protect from elevated temperatures. Heating doesn't generate carbon monoxide. You have to be getting combustion or pyrolysis. And you have to be combusting in a fuel-rich (less oxygen that stoichiometric) environment. Like a cigarette. We never get anywhere near combustion temperature, and even if we did (say, one turned the temperature limit up to 2000 degrees) the environment in an atomizer is oxygen rich, not fuel rich. So you would get carbon dioxide, not monoxide. To get pyrolytic decomposition of the fluid into carbon monoxide and hydrogen, we would want a coil temperature of about 1500F and you'd need to have it sealed off from air completely.

Point 2: If this was a problem, we would have already seen it. The Mond process you describe (nickel ore to nickel carbonyl to nickel metal) is how one refines nickel from ore. The commercial coils are already 80% nickel and run at higher temperatures when they dry out. If we were getting nickel carbonyl production, that would refine the nickel out and we would end up with a porous wire with only 20% chromium left. That's not what happens.

Point 3: Given that all the real research, vapor analysis and long term studies that have been done to this point have been done with commercial cigalikes, all of which use nichrome coils (80% nickel and not at all protected from overheating) if there was a substance as toxic as nickel carbonyl in the vapor, the anti-ecig forces would be screaming that from every rooftop. Nobody has found any, even in devices that aren't temperature controlled. One study did find some metallic nickel and metallic chromium from pitting in the vapor steam, so they were obviously looking for metallic compounds.

I'm attaching the Goniewicz research paper which is one often cited by those on both sides of the e-cigarette safety debate. The study looked at products using nichrome heating coils. And yes, they measured nickel. The study also looked for carbon monoxide in the vapor stream and found none. Zero. The following excerpt is from the study:

"The amounts of toxic metals and aldehydes in e-cigarettes are trace amounts and are comparable with amounts contained in an examined therapeutic product."



Dr. Michael Siegel said of the Goniewicz paper:

"The most important finding in this study (that the authors failed to acknowledge) was that all of the trace levels of metals they found in e-cigarette aerosol were within permissible exposure limits for FDA approved inhalable drugs and devices (e.g. nicotine inhaler, asthma inhalers) per Pharmacopeial Convention."

Basically it boils down to anything a Nickel 200 coil would do, a nichrome coil would already be doing (and worse due to higher temperatures) and nichrome coils are the only ones that have been studied in any meaningful detail by the real scientists, labs and MDs.

What Kanthal is or is not doing, we cannot say as we haven't really studied it.

What is a problem with the commercially available nickel 200 wire is they use a particularly nasty tasting oil in the drawing process. So if you roll a new coil without degreasing the wire first, you initially get a nasty taste from that oil. A good washing with acetone or simple green, followed by rinsing in water, solves that problem. But that is something to point out if people are reporting weird chemical tastes when they first try it.

Thanks,
Brandon
Evolv, LLC

 

Was wondering about that too... Acetone is a highly flammable chemical and what "green" is, i have no idea....

Acetone:
Acetone (systematically named propanone) is the organic compound with the formula (CH₃)₂CO. It is a colorless, volatile, flammable liquid, and is the simplest ketone

 

Thanks SD for the info. I guess a good torch it will do the trick?

 

Well lets face it, everything which is not pure Air or some O2 mix is poisonounous for us Humans
all we basially do with vaping we replace the 1000+ toxic ingredients from cigarettes with a handful of chemicals from vaping stuff
so less toxic load is still better.

As matter of fact, just cause we live in TH we have as stupid as it sounds less Toxic Overlaod from the Air (Unless you live in BKK, CNX thou) then our fellow brothers in the U.S. or in Europe cause we are not living in heavily Chemtrailed environment. Researches from Dr. Klinghardt and others showed that people from western countries where Chemtrailing is common practive have a 100 times higher load of Barium, Aluminium, Strontium in their Bodies then the max Level which is allowed.

So the discussion if heating Nickel might not be a good idea is kinda funny. For sure its not healthy, but heating Kanthal (Ferum/Chromium/Aluminium) and inhaling it wont be healty either. Cause Aluminium has a very high Toxic load. Prolly far worse then Nickel, its just not tooo much known to the Public.

 

Wow. I read the comments on that other forum that was linked, and the crap that some people think up is just absolutely ridiculous.

As Anbessa posted, there is already nickel in nichrome wire. Nobody is dying from using nichrome, so taking the chromium out of it won't make it magically lethal. I've said it before and I'll say it again, it makes no sense to worry about the wick, wire and atomizer material when by volume you are inhaling a billion times more particles from your unknown flavorings. Talking about nickel reacting and changing state, yeah it would make sense if your coils dissolved but they don't, they just sit right there and sometimes snap. Meanwhile, we still don't know the long-term effects of VG and PG, still don't have any standards on flavorings, we have no idea what the chronic effects are from our juices.

At the same time, cigarettes are still legal everywhere. We know what is in them, we know they contain heavy metals and in what quantity. We know the toxins and the carcinogens, we know what they do to the body, we know they will eventually kill you. You can smoke 60 cigarettes a day for 40 years and still be alive, even with all those accumulated heavy metals and carcinogens. I'm pretty sure common sense says your nickel coil that you use for 2 weeks-2 months isn't going to kill you any more than the cigarettes will.

As far as cleaning the wire goes, Kanthal and nichrome also are covered in machine oils. Burn them with a torch before you coil (it takes away the springy-ness as well) and quench the coil in some water to wash away the carbon. I don't expect a nickel coil to vape any different than any other coil.

 

Thinking of getting some nickel.

Is this the right stuff?

Pure Nickel Non Resistance Wire Ni200 | Lightning Vapes


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Yeah, that's the right stuff. Same place I got mine too.

 

I just have the 28AWG, but I've never used it as coil wire before, just for the legs. We'll see what the characteristics are on Sunday I suppose. I'm curious to see what gauge of Kanthal it behaves like, but honestly I think it will behave the same as it's equivalent.

 

Aww yeah!!!



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If you are ordering some, why don't you go for a bulk order?

Does anyone know if you can use the nickel on a kayfun?

I was thinking of ordering a few of these

http://www.fasttech.com/products/0/10006473/1700500-kayfun-lite-plus-v2-style-rebuildable-atomizer-4