1. Welcome to Thailand Vapers, an English language forum for members in Thailand and the rest of Asia to talk about vaping.
    Commonly referred to as e-cigarettes, vaping is really about the use of personal vaporizers (mods) and atomizers (tanks, clearos, RBAs, RDAs, RTAs) filled with e-liquid.
    Are you looking to get started or an old hand at vaping? Everyone is welcome here so sign up today and talk vaping with us!

E-cigarette regulation in Denmark from November 2015

Discussion in 'General Thailand Vaping Discussion' started by Dieter., Mar 1, 2015.

  1. Dieter.
    Fine

    Dieter. Thread Starter Secret Member

    Joined:
    Nov 9, 2013
    Messages:
    1,639
    Likes Received:
    2,247
    Location:
    Udonthani
    I already mentioned in another thread, that the secretary of health in Denmark just sent his proposal for a e-cigarette law for hearing. DADAFO The Danish Vaper Organisation, has made this description, which I think might interest some of you in this forum as well.
    -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Short description of the Danish law-proposal regarding implementation of the TPD


    Denmark has just started a hearing on a new law-proposal (+), implementing the TPD in about as draconian a way as possible, hearing runs until the 20th of March, and then there will be 3 rounds of negotiations amongst politicians, and is supposed to be implemented in November. So far it seems as if there is general goodwill towards the proposal, probably because of the 18 year rule alone. The general misconception is that it is a good law, because it will make nicotine containing products legal in Denmark as tobacco-products, as opposed to the current situation where nicotine containing liquids are illegal (but sold anyways).


    Some of the proposals:


    • No sales to individuals below the age of 18.

    • E-cigarettes with and without nicotine will be covered under the non-smoking laws, equivalent to smoking.

    Smokefree laws in Denmark means: no smoking in bars (except very small facilities), work facilities, offices, public offices, taxis, schools, clubs (private or public), work-vehicles that are used by more than one person, ships and offshore-platforms. Basically everywhere that is indoors, with the exception of private homes and smoking rooms/cabinets. Outside smoking is still legal, except for areas surrounding education environments such as schools, but can be changed by local rules/guidelines. The Danish smoke-free law is more or less a direct implementation of the FCTC recommendations.


    • All private and public companies are required to establish a written smoking (and now vaping) policy, that at the very least specifies where and when smoking/vaping is allowed, as well as the consequences of not following the policy.

    Please note that companies are not allowed to circumvent the smoke-free laws in these policies, they can only make stricter interpretations, such as disallowing smoking on company grounds which is not uncommon. For instance it is not allowed to smoke currently in most amusement parks except in designated areas. And many government employees have been banned from smoking anywhere, including in private areas or outside between workplaces, during work-hours.


    • Complete ban on advertising, sponsoring and name/brand usage outside of shops. Within non-specialized shops the products must be put out of view of the customers and only available on demand.


    • Rules that are required for all hardware (or parts to hardware) that can be used to vaporize liquid that might contain nicotine:
    • No tanks >2ml
    • Completely leak free
    • Filling mechanism that ensures that leaks cannot occur.
    • Childsafe tanks/e-cigs.

    As far as we can tell - this would entail that almost 100% of all equipment currently on the market becomes illegal. The interpretation of the TPD that non-liquid filled tanks aren’t covered is thus ignored, and tanks will fall under the law no matter if they are sold with or without liquid. Notice the “might” part, which means that it does not matter if you sell for non-nicotine based usage.


    • E-liquid can only be sold in 10ml refill containers/bottles, or 2ml pre-filled containers/cartomizers

    • All products (and parts of products) must be registered at the relevant government body (Sikkerhedsstyrelsen (*)). Failure to do so will result in stiff fines (50,000 dkk mentioned, but proposed to be based on revenue). And they will automagically be the toughest fines, since this is a product that could put children in danger.

    • All products (individually) must be registered 6 months before they are sold. Registration starts in November (when the law goes into effect), there is no grandfathering for existing products.

    So as the law stands all e-cig hardware will be illegal for 6 months after the law goes into effect, since no products are registered, and registration must be 6 months before sale.


    • If a company outside Denmark wants to sell to a customer in Denmark, then they must go through the same registration process (ie. there is a wall in import/export), otherwise sales will be illegal, and be prosecuted under the TPD.

    • Product registration is for each subpart sold, and will cost ~30.000 dkk (~THB 145,34) per product for the first year, then~10,000 dkk (~THB 47,24) for each subsequent year it is marketed - and products will need re-registration if “major” changes are done - for e-liquids this could be changing from one producer of aniseed aroma to another. Any kind of innovation on the parts used for vaping (be it equipment or liquids) will be stifled, and any incentive for product development will be stopped effectively.

    For e-liquids this means that each variant will have to be registered individually (ie. if you have a 60:40 pg/vg, 40:60, and 100% vg variant - then they each have to be registered, as well as for each nicotine variant, and each flavour variant).


    • E-liquid producers must register all ingredients, a toxicology report, and an emissions report for each and every variant. Rules describing what the reports must contain will not be available to producers before the end of 2015.




    For more information we are available to be contacted, both via email, and telephone, and we can be convinced to do skype meetings as well :)


    Contact information:


    Danish Vaping Association - Dansk e-Damper Forening (DADAFO)


    Kim Dabelstein Petersen - Chairman

    email: formand@dadafo.dk

    telephone(dadafo): +45 30457516, telephone (private): +45 75 831550

    Skype:dabelstein_petersen


    Peter Stigaard - Treasurer

    email: treasurer@dadafo.dk

    Skype: live:peter.stigaard


    (+) The portal for the lawproposal in Danish only: https://hoeringsportalen.dk/Hearing/Details/45435

    (the law itself, is linked at the bottom as “lovforeslag”)

    (*) Sikkerhedsstyrelsen http://www.sik.dk/Global/English



    28.02.2015

    Udgivet af Google DrevRapportér misbrug–Opdateres automatisk hvert 5. minut
     
    Rowdy and Tibo like this.
  2. Siam Diesel
    Lurking

    Siam Diesel Nauti Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2014
    Messages:
    12,569
    Likes Received:
    14,249
    Location:
    Vape Wastelands
    Good lord, that's about as restrictive as can be short of banning it completely. Sorry to hear this, Dieter. Looks like Big Stinky & the Pill Pushers are quite active in DK.


    Sent from my Ti Mini
     
    Rowdy likes this.
  3. Dieter.
    Fine

    Dieter. Thread Starter Secret Member

    Joined:
    Nov 9, 2013
    Messages:
    1,639
    Likes Received:
    2,247
    Location:
    Udonthani
    Yes you bet. They probably wrote the whole law for him. The secretary of health is so stupid, that he never would be able to do it himself.
     
  4. haybilly
    Paranoid

    haybilly Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 30, 2014
    Messages:
    2,883
    Likes Received:
    2,182
    How totally unenlightened -and I always saw Denmark as a Liberal and Progressive Country -what's happened? When the UK had a female Prime Minister, Margaret Thatcher, things went downhill quickly-it seems that it's the same in Denmark.
     
  5. Dieter.
    Fine

    Dieter. Thread Starter Secret Member

    Joined:
    Nov 9, 2013
    Messages:
    1,639
    Likes Received:
    2,247
    Location:
    Udonthani
    It really went downhill in Denmark, when we got Arne Fogh Rasmussen as prime minister. This clown did the same to Denmark, what Thatcher did to Britain.
     
    haybilly likes this.
  6. David in Bangkok

    David in Bangkok Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2014
    Messages:
    725
    Likes Received:
    245
    Wow and to think this is all for tax money.

    People need to fight it as a nicotine replacement/smoking cessation device I think. In that way I think there's more leeway in arguing for lenient laws because we should be able to choose our medication we use to stop smoking. That is a good argument in the USA at least because I don't know the Danish legal system.

    I'd be OK with taxes though, but these restrictions are too much. I know the US has gotten super involved in tobacco (for example in California they have to add chemicals so the cigarette will extinguish if thrown on the floor so it won't start fires, not that those chemicals are healthy to inhale).


    Some of this is almost just so restrictive it must not have any good reasoning. Why would different pg/vg variants need to be registered if it's the exact same ingredients, it's just oppressive.
    I think if they go for this restrictive people will just break the law. With these regulations, IF you get juice vendors, the cost would be so high with all of these hoops, I think people would just DIY and not listen to the rules...
     
    haybilly likes this.
  7. Tibo
    Relaxed

    Tibo French Hedonist

    Joined:
    Jun 18, 2014
    Messages:
    3,584
    Likes Received:
    4,202
    Location:
    Bangkok
    No tank >2ml.. How do they scientifically justify this, I wonder..

    Sorry to hear about this Dieter. Thanks for the share though, very informative.
     
  8. haybilly
    Paranoid

    haybilly Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 30, 2014
    Messages:
    2,883
    Likes Received:
    2,182
    It's absolutely retrogressive-and must be driven by Tax and Big Tobacco-and the dumbass Politicians can't see that they are being f*****ed well and truly. If there was a great way to drive people back to smoking 'Analogue' or 'Real Tobacco' based products then this legislation is it. It's almost as if they don't want people to find ways to wean themselves off cigarettes.
    Wa****kers! ! Sorry, but that's all I've got to say about them-Thank God that the idiots in power in UK haven't gone down this route. ...............yet.
     
  9. Dieter.
    Fine

    Dieter. Thread Starter Secret Member

    Joined:
    Nov 9, 2013
    Messages:
    1,639
    Likes Received:
    2,247
    Location:
    Udonthani
    Let me just add that this peace of shit, sorry the law of course fills 143 A4 pages, and I might translate a few of the really funny parts regarding requirements for packaging and presentation, or requirements for e-liquid in a couple of days. But one lesson is clear already. Danmark must stop sending their ministers on training courses to North Korea.
    **Updated**
    No but if the Wa****kers in Denmark get away with it, who knows other European States just might follow.
     
    haybilly likes this.
  10. David in Bangkok

    David in Bangkok Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2014
    Messages:
    725
    Likes Received:
    245
    While it's just a guess, doesn't it seem like they're making this law in anticipation of a specific tank? The rest of the 143 pages might make this clearer.

    For a while people have been thinking that big tobacco (or some large corporation) would work with the government to make a "standard" ecig.
    The surprising part for me is that it seems like they're trying the same with the juice!

    While this doesn't require the use of a specific one legally, it essentially makes it impossible for small businesses to create something and get it registered.

    I hope the country has some people to oppose this because I also agree that other countries may follow suit if the public doesn't complain (enough) and the profit is there for the government....
    I am not saying that the US is next, but it's a good point about other countries following suit. One of the amazing things about ecigs is that innovation has come internationally. I would hate it if European ecig inventors give up working on them because of these laws.
     
    Tibo likes this.
  11. haybilly
    Paranoid

    haybilly Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 30, 2014
    Messages:
    2,883
    Likes Received:
    2,182
    The sad part is that,in the past, Denmark was one of the very few 'Enlightened 'European Countries -a bit like Holland. I remember when Christiana in Copenhagen was 'more cool 'than Amsterdam.
     
  12. David in Bangkok

    David in Bangkok Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2014
    Messages:
    725
    Likes Received:
    245
    I'm American so maybe I view this issue in a different legal light, and of course we have a different system/culture so my views may be different.

    I just think this is a choice of freedom and restricting ecigs is a huge restriction on our freedom.
    I believe ecigs should be in the same category as nicotine gum etc., and as such they are medicine. We should have the freedom to choose which method we would like our medication delivered, without undue interference by the government. I know in America we have strong laws supporting this, and that is where I look at this issue.
    With medication comes restrictions which is the issue, but I think ecigs have been proven to both be a successful smoking cessation device and it is at least a good degree safer (at the very least). It seems like a no-brainer that there should be enough there to at least not restrict it unnecessarily.


    It is even more of a freedom issue when you consider the fact that the tobacco companies have this monopoly on nicotine delivery, and they not only got us addicted and keep the temptation everywhere you look, but they are going to restrict our access to other methods of delivery, it's just outrageous in my American legal eyes.
     
  13. Siam Diesel
    Lurking

    Siam Diesel Nauti Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2014
    Messages:
    12,569
    Likes Received:
    14,249
    Location:
    Vape Wastelands
    This is only the beginning...as I understand it, each EU country has to implement the recently passed European Tobacco Products Directive (TPD...yeah, I know that ejuice isn't tobacco related but it's included). More info can be found at this link: EU TPD
     
    Rowdy likes this.
  14. Tibo
    Relaxed

    Tibo French Hedonist

    Joined:
    Jun 18, 2014
    Messages:
    3,584
    Likes Received:
    4,202
    Location:
    Bangkok
    The US probably won't use this as they usually decide on their own.

    I am more worry about the influence within Europe as if the Danish governements is working with this, they will be able to influence the European Parlement where the tabaco lobbyist are very active. That would be the spark to start the fire we all hope never happen..
     
  15. David in Bangkok

    David in Bangkok Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2014
    Messages:
    725
    Likes Received:
    245
    But it wouldn't help US users to cut off all innovation from Europe.
    It would also be much easier to gain public support in the US if this gets public support over there. Just one country won't mean much, but if this is going to be going through all the EU countries (see SD's post, that website is scary....) that would be hard to go against. Irregardless of the country the people involved in ecig legislation are going to be looking to Europe to see how things go.
     

Share This Page